Hey Unc,
All pre-historical worship originates from the one, true God. Pagan cultures assimilated the original ideas of God and added to them when they began idolatry. Practically all humans are aware of an inborn concience that has continually shown up in the laws of most cultures.
Why in the world would it surprise you that someone like Zarathrustra had some valid teachings? Abraham was a pagan before he followed God's direction! The 'originality' question is another moot objection.
The reality is that Christ lived, performed miracles, was slain and resurrected, proving His claims and His deity.
Rex
Rex B13
JoinedPosts by Rex B13
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Commenting NeonMadman on the trinity
by Rev BII inneonmadman wrote:.
re: the bible teaches jesus is jehovah?
nov 27, 2001 12:34 .
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Rex B13
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Where's the Worldly Witness
by philo ina few months back there was a very busy poster called ww (worldly witness).
i was thinking about his rise and fall today, and this is where it took me.. whether jehovah's witnesses as individuals are 'part of the world' or not, the billion-dollar corporations which administer jw activity, receive their donations, their devotion, and their unquestioning obedience, cannot easily be described as "no part of the world".
and as for day-to-day jw culture, many of us who have spent a few years on the 'inside' know that many things there change roughly in line with society at large - 'the world'.
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Rex B13
Hi Frenchy,
I borrowed the phrase, it's really not original. Do you ever listen to any of the praise and worship music on the radio? If you have seen that "Songs for Worship" cds advertised on tv, they are a great set.
Rex -
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The Bible teaches Jesus is Jehovah?
by Rev BII injohn 8:58 is a bit lame to use as trinitarian argument.
jesus was before adam and he tells the pharisees that he's god's son.. that's what makes them mad *lol* .
you must face that they exist together too;.
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Rex B13
Dubla,
I see that JW misinformation still has a hold on you. View my links then you will have the real picture.
Rex -
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Where's the Worldly Witness
by philo ina few months back there was a very busy poster called ww (worldly witness).
i was thinking about his rise and fall today, and this is where it took me.. whether jehovah's witnesses as individuals are 'part of the world' or not, the billion-dollar corporations which administer jw activity, receive their donations, their devotion, and their unquestioning obedience, cannot easily be described as "no part of the world".
and as for day-to-day jw culture, many of us who have spent a few years on the 'inside' know that many things there change roughly in line with society at large - 'the world'.
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Rex B13
Brothers and Sisters!
I preach that hell's hot, heaven's glory and there is ONLY one way (not one church!) to salvation.
I'd like to have a couple hundred JWs hogtied and carted into a Sunday morning service. At least they would hear good singing and an inspiring sermon that would keep them awake.
Rex (no longer WW) -
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The Bible teaches Jesus is Jehovah?
by Rev BII injohn 8:58 is a bit lame to use as trinitarian argument.
jesus was before adam and he tells the pharisees that he's god's son.. that's what makes them mad *lol* .
you must face that they exist together too;.
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Rex B13
Neon madman, you nailed it!
Some of the rest of you are really hardheaded, and I am not even counting Rev Bil, who is a lost cause. If you really care, do the research and you will see that every little objection is handled here:http://www.watchman.org/jw/answers.htm Answering Watchtower Objections
http://www.gospelcom.net/apologeticsindex/t03.html The Biblical Basis of the Doctrine of the Trinity by Robert Bowman
http://www.gospelcom.net/apologeticsindex/t10.html The Doctrine of the Trinity
http://answering-islam.org.uk/Trinity/beckwith.html The Trinity by Francis J Beckwith
http://www.probe.org/docs/bel-trin.html Why We Should Believe in the Trinity Pat Zuckeran
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/9t8/9t8072.html Writing the Trinity Philip Yancey
http://www.atlantaapologist.org/Sharp.html A Bicentennial Defense of Granville Sharp's Argument for the Deity of Christ.If you aren't going to do the research then you end up posting something that is foolish to anyone who has actually studied the issue. Rev Bil is a blatant example of this, posting the same old arguments built on straw man and red herrings.
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To: Rev B / Trinity vs Salvation
by Amazing inhi rev b: you stated on my other thread that belief in the trinity is necessary for salvation in christendom.
not so.. i can go into almost any church and say that i am christian, believe in jesus christ as my personal savior, and will be accepted as such, without any comment or need to discuss the trinity.
i can even say that i don't accept the trinity, or literal hellfire, etc., and will still be accepted.. where the difference is, if i try to join that specific church as an official member with voting rights on church business, or hold an office of deacon, elder, or pastor, then a christian church will often require acceptance of the trinity for membership ... but not for salvation.
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Rex B13
This is an explanation of Jesus' deity from my friend, Gus.
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Yes, a christian receives Christ as savior but the redemptive act is central to the Christian tenet.
The blood shed was by Christ whom was God and the scriptures make this clear.
Acts 20:28:Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.What was central to Christian doctrine was that God came in the flesh and dwelt among men and suffered man's penalty for him. That Only God whom alone is perfect could redeem man spiritually and physically. Take this away and you take away the redeeming value of Christ's sacrifice. Other Jesus' just will not do and this is why the apostle Paul condemned other Christologies.
2 Cor. 11:4-For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you bear {this} beautifully.
This is the gospel that the I AM came to his temple in the flesh and sacrificed himself for all mankind. The True Lord the Jews were seeking had come in a greater glory than the shekinah glory of the wilderness.
Mal. 3:1-Behold, I am going to send My messenger, and he will clear
the way before Me. And the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple; and the messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight, behold, He is coming," says the LORD of hosts.Zech.12:10-10 "I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep
bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstbornThe 'one whom they have pierced' and we see similar wording in Revelation 1.7.
This is the gospel preached and taught by Paul the apostle and Jesus the Christ.Jesus made it a salvation issue when he stated:
John 8:24-4 "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am {He}, you will die in your sins."
I am he who? Jesus repeats again that they will know he is: the I AM! This is the term God used to answer Moses' inquiry in Exodus 6.2. God had been known to Abraham as El Shaddai, then as Yahweh to the Israelites.
verse 28 So Jesus said, "When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am {He,} and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me.
The claims of being the monogenes (only-begotten) Son of God and the I AM brought cries of blasphemy on several occassions. Paul said those preaching another Jesus and another Gospel were anathema. We should not bear well with these ones as 2 Corinthians admonished us!
Galatians 1:6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;
7 which is {really} not another;only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But
even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be
accursed! 9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you
received, he is to be accursed!Today we have preachers teaching 'another Christ' in spades. We have Mormonism which teaches that all MEN can be Gods. We have Jehovah's Witnesses that deny the transformation of Jesus' physical body to a spiritual one, then have the audacity to say our savior is NOT GOD but only the highest ranking angel! We have 'Oneness' Pentecostals who deny the trinity. We have Catholics that want to elevate Mary, the mother of Jesus, to a co-mediator and the list goes on with false teachers too numerous to mention.
An exclamation of Jesus being the Only begotten Son of God and Lord is an exlamation of deity. If we look at these terms as how ancient Christians did, we will realize such admissions are nothing less than belief that Christ is true deity. He is almighty God clothed in flesh. An admission to Jesus as Lord is tantamount to an admission that Jesus is Jehovah. The early Christians saw it that way. Recent evidences indicate that the nomina sacra was used for Christ's name even in a manuscript finding of the gospel of Mark and Mathew that dates to as old as 42 C.E. Suggested readings for this evidence is in Mathew D'Ancona and Carson Thiede's books entitled, "The Jesus Papyrus" and "An Eyewitness to Jesus."
That is as good an explanation as any if you don't want deep, theological explanations.
Rex -
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To: Rev B / Trinity vs Salvation
by Amazing inhi rev b: you stated on my other thread that belief in the trinity is necessary for salvation in christendom.
not so.. i can go into almost any church and say that i am christian, believe in jesus christ as my personal savior, and will be accepted as such, without any comment or need to discuss the trinity.
i can even say that i don't accept the trinity, or literal hellfire, etc., and will still be accepted.. where the difference is, if i try to join that specific church as an official member with voting rights on church business, or hold an office of deacon, elder, or pastor, then a christian church will often require acceptance of the trinity for membership ... but not for salvation.
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Rex B13
Hi Abaddon,
I wish you had read my links. In them they discuss the OBVIOUS fact that Jesus did claim to be God, Yahweh (I am) in the flesh. He did not say He was the Father, but from the Father and one with the Father, showing His separate personhood.
The jews expected a divine messiah, the O.T. predicted it, Jesus claimed to be the Son of God and proved He was God with the miracles, the displays of God's abilities and with His resurrection. The early Christians worshipped Jesus, used His name equal to the Father and even baptized in His name alone!
My dear, you must break away from the rationalism you learned as a JW if you are going to truly understand the Book. ;-) You don't have to believe it but you can very well learn to interpret by comparing scripture.
Rex
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I'm a bad American
by Bendrr ini picked up this essay on another site and wanted to share it with y'all.
not sure of the original writer, so i'll credit www.thebigshow.com for posting it.. ---.
i'm a bad american.
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Rex B13
Oh, oh oh!!!!!
I got a good one!Julie agrees with Rex,
Julie = Fundy? LOL
Nope, Julie agrees with Rex,
Julie = in love with Rex.
xoxoxoxoxo
Rex -
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I'm a bad American
by Bendrr ini picked up this essay on another site and wanted to share it with y'all.
not sure of the original writer, so i'll credit www.thebigshow.com for posting it.. ---.
i'm a bad american.
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Rex B13
Hey Bigboi,
Why would anyone 'invest capital' in neighborhoods where the local, million dollar, taxpayer built, housing doesn't last thirty years because of out and out abuse by the residents?
Or because the residents like to systematically break in, rob or burn down everything that is not secure as Fort Knox?
Ask the poor shop keepers who lose their butts when the locals decide to riot because some hooligan got well-deserved justice?
It's time for people to start taking responsibility for their life choices and quit tearing down the people who leave the misery behind with hard work and dedication.
Rex -
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I'm a bad American
by Bendrr ini picked up this essay on another site and wanted to share it with y'all.
not sure of the original writer, so i'll credit www.thebigshow.com for posting it.. ---.
i'm a bad american.
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Rex B13
Mommy!
>Now the clincher is my brother in law was arrested for a hate crime, $1500 or 3 months in jail. He first of all was not even talking to the guy, and he never threw the first punch. There was not only the clerk, but the store manager who witnessed it. But due to the new legislation, you aren't even able to have a private convo within ear shot of someone who might be offended.
I say Give me a break! This is the craziest thing I have ever heard of. I personally can see if they walked up to this man taunting him, or followed him around, etc. This was not the case, because neither one of them would do anything like that. Both have friends of different nationalities, and how many people have said Osama needs to die? Way back when, if you physically attacked someone you were the one put in jail.This is the end result of the 'politically correct' dogma we have been fed by the liberal media for years. We now have 'thought crime', looming on the horizon and the reality will be like Orwell's '1984'.
I hope that there were counter charges filed.
Our government is at war and it is trying to kill anyone involved in terrorism who will not voluntarily go to trial, Rumsfield said old Osama dying would be welcome. I hope your guys fight this thing, if the ACLU is too 'correct' to do it try the American Center for Law and Justice.
Rex